A subway photographer who goes by the internet name “Nilet” sent us this account of a recent encounter with a New York City Police Officer in the subway:
It’s been almost a year since the NYPD issued an operations order on April 3, 2009 explaining that photography is legal, and yet the NYPD continues to harass photographers.
On March 18, 2010 I took a photo in the 96th Street subway station of a 1 train with a sign that said 2 on it. A pair of cops standing nearby shouted that photography was illegal. This was officer Corrad, shield #7338 (if I remember correctly, as I was never given an opportunity to note it down with greater accuracy) and his partner, who never provided a name or shield number. They were clearly looking for a fight.
The two demanded to see identification. Wary after numerous stories of previous harassment as well as my own experience, the first thing I took out of my pocket was my camcorder. After numerous complaints of unknown headless lecturers in which photographers recorded their harassers only from the neck down, I elected to point the camcorder at the officer in order to obtain an accurate video of the encounter. The officer, however, grabbed the camcorder and my hand (as I have learned to keep a tight grip on the camcorder and held it in my hand-strap) and covered it with his own hand.
He repeatedly told me that I was not allowed to take photos, despite photography being specifically permitted by 21 NYCRR 1050.9(c), and despite the operations order telling him as much, and continued to demand identification. I asked him again to take his hands off my camcorder— as well as violating my right to take the video, he was also demanding that I produce identification, which required that he let go of the hand in which I was holding the camcorder, making it impossible to reach into my pocket.
I asked on what basis I was being detained. He told me I was not being detained; he was just asking for ID. I asked if I was free to go, given that he said I was not being detained. He demanded ID again, and specifically demanded a photo ID “that says you can take pictures down here,” and demanded that I show him a special photo permit. Given that photography is explicitly permitted, special photo permits are not required except for extensive commercial shoots.
Ultimately, I managed to extract my wallet from my right pocket with my left hand even though he never let go of my right hand and the camcorder. I handed him a school ID and a copy of 21 NYCRR 1050.9(c), neither of which he ever really looked at. Even after I gave them to him, he continued to accuse me of refusing to provide ID; the other showed me some odd paper of sorts, claiming that refusing to provide ID is a $25 fine. I’m not sure what that was, but refusing to provide ID is legal unless the police have reasonable suspicion of a crime.
The officer specifically asked me: “Do you have a document that says you’re a special photographer that can take pictures in the subway? Yes or no? YES OR NO? Do you have a permit that lets you take pictures in the subway?” This was while he was holding both the copy of 21 NYCRR and my ID. I told him to read the former; he asked for the latter. He also ordered me to put the camcorder down, saying: “You don’t have the right to take photos of me. That’s what you don’t have.” This statement is not true, and I corrected him. He repeated: “You need MY permission to take a photo of me, PUT THE CAMERA AWAY!” He also declared: “You can’t take photos without being identified!” Not only is this statement untrue, he was, and I repeat, holding my ID at the time he said it. He finally looked at it, noticed it was a student ID, a said: “You’re a college student… Why wasn’t it around your neck?” When I told him this was not required, he declared: “If requested, you have to produce it.” This is also not true, but I said: “I gave it to you!” Indeed I had. He said: “No you didn’t, you went on to take photos of me,” and lectured me for failing to produce it fast enough. Then, he declared without the slightest sense of irony: “You know the rules! You need to produce ID! Why were you making this so confrontational?” I pointed to my ID; he declared: “I’m asking you a question!” I told him I wasn’t going to answer that; he told me that in that case I had to leave the subway. I asked him on what basis; he said: “Refusing to produce ID,” and threatened to arrest me for “disorderly conduct,” the all-purpose contempt of cop charge. (I also asked him to refund the $2.25 fare; he said “talk to the MTA about that.”)
This is absolutely inexcusable:
1. The photographer is correct. NO PERMIT IS REQUIRED to take pictures in the NYC Subway. Everyone is entitled to take pictures under 21NYCRR1050.9(3)
2. NO PERMISION is required to take pictures or video of police officers.
Police officers were given an operations order that specifically reminded them that photography in the subway is legal – apparently these two officers are ILLITERATE !


Have a story to share that we did not cover? Want to discuss something in greater detail? Want to compare Nikon vs. Canon? Post it in our forum - all are welcome.

I’d go after that officer for assault. He has no reason to make physical contact with any part of you, including the video camera.
Ok, so who’s cops are stupider — Chicago or NYC?
/..
Honestly, anytime I’ve had a police officer ask me for ID (granted not NYPD but others) I said “Sure, hows your day?” and handed it to them. Not once have they ever given me any problems. I’ve even asked if I could take THEIR picture and had them pose for me. I know you don’t have to produce ID, but doing so makes their job easier. If you give them grief, they are going to give grief back. I’ve actually gotten patrol officers to let me ride with them (after supervisor approval). And while you may have the right to take my picture without my permission, it’s not exactly polite to do it. I’m a photographer myself but if someone started taking pictures of me trying to do my job and I asked them to stop and they didn’t, I’d probably get a little nasty with them.
Obviously, the police aren’t to blame! They’re always right about everything! /extreme sarcasm
I’m starting to think it’s required by law that every report of illegal activity committed by the police be commented on at least once by someone insisting that police are all infallible gods and anything they do wrong must by definition be somebody else’s fault.
@nilet
or the overused…”I’m a photographer and I blah, blah, blah.”
I love this new movement, which has gained a lot of momentum recently, where many people are saying it’s just not polite for a photographer to take a stranger’s picture while in public.
it’s ludicrous since we’ll all being videotaped by businesses, security companies, traffic cameras, law enforcement etc., every time we leave our homes
What also has to be noted here is that NY State Law [New York Code Rules and Regulations Chapter 21 Section 1050.9 paragraph 3 (21NYCRR1050.9(3))] specifically permits photography in the subway. The cop in this instance went beyond asking for ID – he asked the photographer if he had a permit or permission. State Law give everyone that permission – no exceptions.
The big difference is that in most public areas photography is presumed to be permitted because no law prohibits it. The subway is very different – the law specifically permits it.
Also an operations order was distributed to police following the arrest of a railfan for taking pictures in the subway. The charges were dropped and the photographer received a $30,000 settlement. The operations order which is referenced elsewhere in this blog specifically states that photography in the subway is permitted.
Therefore this harassment is uncalled for.
Is it going to take another five-figure settlement before NYPD gets the message?
With the latest harrasment of a NYC subway photographer maybe a SIX-figure settlement will convince the police that photography is legal.
The pigs make up their own rules as always
It seems here that the police officers were intentionally confrontational, probably seeking some occasion to cite or arrest to help fill their quota. This quota is what has led to such an increase in “stop and frisk” in New York. They may not have been as ignorant of the law as they were being deliberately intimidatory.
I agree with the OP, with only one exception. When asked for ID, don’t grab for a camcorder first. Any interaction with any law enforcement agent once you’ve grabbed for any recording device & pointed it at them is going to go down hill.
Its not neccessarily that they don’t want to be filmed, its more that they don’t want you to film them and then cut out the bits where the guy with the camcorder is being an arse & then post it up on youtube as another “douche bag cop beats poor little [insert minority or hobbyist group name here]” video.
Not that i’m saying the OP would do this, but all aspects of law enforcement are wary of this now. But apart from that the transit authority was pretty much in the wrong.
I would say in the future, don’t turn a little altercation into a big one by pulling a camcorder… because thats pretty much forcing the cops hands. Once that cameras out they must work on the theory that your some sort of jackarse who thinks he is on jackarse.
I hope you take this post in the way it was intended; to enlighten and to educate.
Regards
Matthew Lane
p.s i would love to see the subway photos sometime.
Don’t expect this to end soon. The NYPD does not give an airborne rodent’s posterior about whose rights they are abridging. They consider themselves to be a law unto themselves and the rest of us can kiss their collective backsides and go to hell!!
Mathew Lane wrote: “Its not neccessarily that they don’t want to be filmed, its more that they don’t want you to film them and then cut out the bits where the guy with the camcorder is being an arse & then post it up on youtube as another “douche bag cop beats poor little [insert minority or hobbyist group name here]” video.”
It is not against the law to be an “arse” or to post videos on YouTube that misrepresent police ativity. It IS against the law for cops to beat up people because they don’t like them video taping in a public place, or for any other thing for that matter.
The NYPD should get rid of the quota. After all, if people are adhearing to the laws, police should leave them alone and only go after real criminals.
@Rusty Carr: i never said it was illegal & by the way many of you need to get over your “I can do it because its not illegal” stage. What i siad is that it is a great way to piss off pretty much anybody, but especially law enforcement.
Now the fact is they can kick you out of any place they are working at including the train station regardless of you doing anything wrong (they can not however delete your photos). Now i can say if i were doing the same job hypothetically (& spending my day putting up with arseholes, people giving me endless agro & people trying to rob people) i would be pretty cranky too. Then some person who as far as i am concerned is looking to make a name for themselves as the next star of internet jackarse (still hypothetical so don’t read to much into this) points a camcorder in my face, my moody would have become sub-arctic too.
I’m not saying that the security was right or that the photographer was wrong, i’m just saying pointing a video camera at someone telling you to stop taking photos is probably the wrong move to make. There are real cases of law enforcement going over the top, but i don’t think this is one of them. Utilising a little common sense can win the day.
Regards
Matthew Lane
Matthew:
I don’t think this situation would have ended in the photographer’s favor even if he did not try to video tape the cops. Keep in mind that the cop told Nilet to stop taking pictures and that photography in the subway was illegal even before he took out the video camera. Unlike most locations where photography is considered legal simply because there is no law against it, New York State law expressly permits photography in the NY Subway. That in and of itself is a big difference.
As for video taping the cops and the reason behind it. Nilet has been harassed on numerous occasions and he has pursued legal action against the NYPD in the past. I know of at least one cash settlement he won because he was detained and at least one or more CCRB complaints that were sustained. He has good reason to distrust police.
The very fact that law enforcement continues to state that photography in the subways is illegal when clearly the opposite is true makes this a case of law enforcement exceeding its authority.
In the coming months the MTA is planning to make several service changes. The V line and the W line will be eliminated. Expect hundreds of railfans to converge on the system to take detailed pictures of these operations in their final days (I will be one of them). I hope to document a V and W at every station they currently serve. My fear is that it is going to be a long hot summer for both photographers and railfans.
And just in case you say that we should call and get permission – I have tried – MTA just confirms verbally that photography is legal and that they do not issue permits for amateurs. Catch 22 – MTA tells amateurs that they do not give permits because none are needed and NYPD harasses us anyway.