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	<title>Comments on: NYPD Ignoring Operations Order &#8211; Continue to Harass Photographers</title>
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	<link>http://www.nycphotorights.com/2009/07/nypd-ignoring-operations-order-continue-to-harass-photographers/</link>
	<description>Photographers are harassed daily.. Read the horror stories here</description>
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		<title>By: Vidiot</title>
		<link>http://www.nycphotorights.com/2009/07/nypd-ignoring-operations-order-continue-to-harass-photographers/comment-page-1/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>Vidiot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nycphotorights.com/?p=689#comment-460</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what I just posted in that Flickr thread:

I am not a lawyer, but I did some research on the law after &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.telescreen.org/2007/11/something-i-don.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I was stopped by the police&lt;/a&gt; after taking pictures in a subway station.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.telescreen.org/2007/11/talking-to-the-.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s where I laid out my research&lt;/a&gt;, but the upshot is:
--New York state DOES have a stop-and-identify law, forcing you to provide ID;
--However, the stop-and-identify law, which can compel you to show ID (rather than just asking you for it), is only triggered when the police are &quot;detaining you&quot;, as in a Terry stop. This requires that the police can articulate &quot;reasonable suspicion&quot; that you are engaging in criminal activity...and the state Office of the Attorney General has held that &quot;the refusal to identify oneself will not alone give rise to &#039;reasonable suspicion.&#039;&quot;
--A case called People v. De Bour lays out a four-part test for differing levels of police intrusion in New York State. It&#039;s actually more restrictive than federal law. At the first tier, &quot;an officer may request information from a civilian about his or her identity, reason for being at a particular location, or travel plans, where the request is &#039;supported by an objective, credible reason, not necessarily indicative of criminality.&#039;&quot; The second tier, called the &quot;common-law right of inquiry&quot;, allows an officer to more closely question a civilian in search of more explanatory information, but the civilian is always free to leave. (This level requires a &quot;founded suspicion&quot; that criminal activity is afoot, but the questionee doesn&#039;t have to be the suspect.) The third level requires &quot;reasonable suspicion&quot;, is equivalent to a Terry stop, and the officer can detain the civilian and compel them to identify themselves. The fourth tier requires &quot;probable cause&quot;, and is an arrest.
--As the appellate court wrote in De Bour, &quot;innocuous behavior alone will not generate a founded or reasonable suspicion that a crime is at hand.&quot;

Again, I&#039;m not a lawyer, but thought this information might be useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what I just posted in that Flickr thread:</p>
<p>I am not a lawyer, but I did some research on the law after <a href="http://www.telescreen.org/2007/11/something-i-don.html" rel="nofollow">I was stopped by the police</a> after taking pictures in a subway station.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telescreen.org/2007/11/talking-to-the-.html" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s where I laid out my research</a>, but the upshot is:<br />
&#8211;New York state DOES have a stop-and-identify law, forcing you to provide ID;<br />
&#8211;However, the stop-and-identify law, which can compel you to show ID (rather than just asking you for it), is only triggered when the police are &#8220;detaining you&#8221;, as in a Terry stop. This requires that the police can articulate &#8220;reasonable suspicion&#8221; that you are engaging in criminal activity&#8230;and the state Office of the Attorney General has held that &#8220;the refusal to identify oneself will not alone give rise to &#8216;reasonable suspicion.&#8217;&#8221;<br />
&#8211;A case called People v. De Bour lays out a four-part test for differing levels of police intrusion in New York State. It&#8217;s actually more restrictive than federal law. At the first tier, &#8220;an officer may request information from a civilian about his or her identity, reason for being at a particular location, or travel plans, where the request is &#8217;supported by an objective, credible reason, not necessarily indicative of criminality.&#8217;&#8221; The second tier, called the &#8220;common-law right of inquiry&#8221;, allows an officer to more closely question a civilian in search of more explanatory information, but the civilian is always free to leave. (This level requires a &#8220;founded suspicion&#8221; that criminal activity is afoot, but the questionee doesn&#8217;t have to be the suspect.) The third level requires &#8220;reasonable suspicion&#8221;, is equivalent to a Terry stop, and the officer can detain the civilian and compel them to identify themselves. The fourth tier requires &#8220;probable cause&#8221;, and is an arrest.<br />
&#8211;As the appellate court wrote in De Bour, &#8220;innocuous behavior alone will not generate a founded or reasonable suspicion that a crime is at hand.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m not a lawyer, but thought this information might be useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Quimbly</title>
		<link>http://www.nycphotorights.com/2009/07/nypd-ignoring-operations-order-continue-to-harass-photographers/comment-page-1/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Quimbly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>When they take your ID information down, don&#039;t be surprised to find out that they&#039;ve entered it into the NCIC and NJTTF databases.  That happened to me last year - Port Authority PD in midtown.

The photography Operations Order probably just reduces the number of actual arrests, while the information gathering continues.

This is criminalization of photography, the artist&#039;s equivalent of the Terry stop.

NYPD: How many cameras were used in bringing down WTC?  The Pentagon?  Right, I didn&#039;t think any were.

Considering that very tiny, very high resolution cameras are available for just a few hundred dollars, the terrorist that actually needs a camera can now be discreet when taking pictures of buildings, bridges etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When they take your ID information down, don&#8217;t be surprised to find out that they&#8217;ve entered it into the NCIC and NJTTF databases.  That happened to me last year &#8211; Port Authority PD in midtown.</p>
<p>The photography Operations Order probably just reduces the number of actual arrests, while the information gathering continues.</p>
<p>This is criminalization of photography, the artist&#8217;s equivalent of the Terry stop.</p>
<p>NYPD: How many cameras were used in bringing down WTC?  The Pentagon?  Right, I didn&#8217;t think any were.</p>
<p>Considering that very tiny, very high resolution cameras are available for just a few hundred dollars, the terrorist that actually needs a camera can now be discreet when taking pictures of buildings, bridges etc.</p>
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