Where do we draw the line? We have been very critical of any attempt on the part of authorities of all kinds to restrict photography and rightfully so. However, there are times when even we must say the issue isn’t about photographer’s rights but about common decency and respect.

A debate is going on Flickr right now that threatens to bring down one of the more popular photo rights groups with over 1,300 members. It is a shame since it seems to be a personal issue between the administrator of the group and and a Flickr member who felt offended by a picture he posted. The problem wasn’t so much the picture itself but the sexual innuendo and commentary that he failed to delete as well as the groups he shared the picture in.

The picture (which we will not show here) depicts a girl in a parochial school uniform standing at the counter in a Starbucks. Note the caption that reads “Yum” and the comment by Flickr member Bad Boy Leroy Brown: “That beeeyatch is hot”.

Flickr Member MartinaMartina commented:

It’s interesting that you are so adament about “photography is not a crime”, yet you secretly take photos of underage girls. Which is, in fact, a crime.

That started a debate that is now raging over several Flickr groups as Ashi, the person that posted the picture, attempted to gather support to rebut MartinaMartina. In fact there is nothing illegal about the picture itself, however the groups it is posted in as well as some of the comments is uncomfortable. Therefore as expected most Flickr members are turning against him and the debate is threatening to bring down one of the more important Photo Rights groups.

It is true that Ashi is right within the letter of the law, and our opinion is that if the picture was posted with no words there would not even have been an issue. Neither Starbucks nor anyone else tried to prevent the picture from being taken so we don’t see a photo rights issue at all.

Here are some excerpts from the raging debates:

funkaoshi Pro User says:
You’d probably do more for your photography is not a crime cause if you erased all the skeevy comments on the photo, and didn’t add it to the two creepy pools. Although, you are correct, being creepy is (usually) not a crime.

MartinaMartina Pro User says:
I don’t know where this photo was taken, but in New York City it is illegal to photograph minors without parental consent. I know this because good friend was fined a hefty sum for photographing a child in a public park. I am not pretending to be a lawyer or know the intricacies of this law, I can only tell you what I know from experience.

Martina is technically wrong on the point of law – it is NOT illegal to photograph minors without parental consent.

The debate continues:

Midori no Saru Pro User says:
Yes a closer look shows some things that shouldn’t be here. A title that says “Yum, ” and particularly membership of a group called “Bringing Sexy Back.”
Although MartinaMartina does use some false logic and a couple of red herrings about the general legality of photographing children, I think she is right about this shot.
It’s a shame for someone heading the “Photography is Not a Crime” group to undermine the cause in this way. It’s not the picture that is the problem, it is the contextual stuff.

This is exactly the point and why this is not a photo rights issue. Thank You Midori.

Unfortunately the group is now splitting apart. Here are some comments from long-time members and photo rights activists:

Luca D. says:
If tomorrow this idiot will still be a member of the group, I will not anymore. Any of the two alternatives will have no impact on the defense of photographers’ rights, I guess.

pw-pix Pro User says:
I’m with Luca D
Having looked at he photo, read all the comments and had a good think about this, I’m leaving this group if you remain in it, it seems worse that you are the admin.
Your photo, the groups you’ve posted it to and the sexualised comment you’ve allowed to remain on it and the attention you’ve drawn to it here have made me uncomfortable about being a member here.

Joshua J. Frost Pro User says:
I support your right to take that photo, Ashi, but I don’t support where you posted it to and the comments you’ve left behind. I really like this group and what it stands for but as a father I can’t morally allow myself to stay in this group given the uncomfortably negative attention you’ve just brought to it with that image. I won’t question your right to take that photo–just question your reasoning.

Danny McL Pro User says:
Ashi
Like others above, I am out of here. You have seen and dismissed my reasoned comments (and those of my daughters) under your pic. Some battles are worth fighting – this one wasn’t mate!

Sometimes we have to pick our battles and this photo was definitely not a battle worth fighting over. It has only caused us to divert our focus away from our common goal, and for something that is not a photo rights issue at all in the first place. The group is valuable and we do gather a lot of our information from topics and pictures posted there so we would hope that the group can put this behind them and re-focus.

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